CIP-102: Change PoW mining algorithm

cip title author status type created
102 Change PoW mining algorithm Chenxing Li(@ChenxingLi) Draft Spec Breaking 2022-08-05

Simple Summary

Change PoW mining algorithm to Ethash.

Abstract

Change PoW mining algorithm to Ethash.

Motivation

Make it easier for Ethereum miners to switch to Conflux.

Specification

TBA.

Rationale

TBA.

Backwards Compatibility

This change is spec breaking.

Test Cases

TBA.

Implementation

TBA.

Security Considerations

Copyright

Copyright and related rights waived via CC0.

17 Likes

Love to hear from all the miners their thoughts on this.

2 Likes

I have read the CIP and allow myself to give U my personal opinion here bc, as U surely know, I have been mining Conflux since February 2021.

I fully understand this questioning bc it can be very tempting to switch Octopus algo to EtHash. :+1:

Advantages:

  • Optimize the hashrate for AMD GPUs because mining under Octopus is not economically viable with these cards.
  • Reduce the power consumption of the rig (bc Octopus consumes slightly more than EtHash).

Disadvantages:

  • EtHash is not ASIC resistant, it can accelerate the centralization of the hashrate (the decentralization is one of the major marketing points of Conflux Network).
  • The Octopus algo is “the trademark” of the Conflux blockchain, it risks losing its soul.

The motivation of “Make it easier for Ethereum miners to switch to Conflux.” isn’t valid (for NVIDIA GPUs miners), it’s very easy to switch between ETH mining and CFX mining, whether on HiveOS and even easier on Windows. OC settings are almost identical, just increase a little bit the PL due to power consumption.

I build rigs with NVIDIA cards for my customers bc I consider these cards “four-by-four” and most are currently mining ETH. I think we should rather communicate on the fact that the Conflux algo is particularly suitable for NVIDIA GPUs to gain in hashrate… and maybe ask to NVIDIA for a grant since they achieved a record balance sheet thanks to mining in 2021 and since ETH mining will stop… :joy::muscle:

Questions:

  • Will switching to EtHash reduce TPS?
  • Will this affect the DAG size?

U’ll have understood in my message that I am rather against. :sweat_smile: Personally, I mine Conflux bc I consider it to be a different community, same feeling when I mine RVN under KawPoW. IMHO, Conflux risks losing its “sexy” and “unique” sides… I’m most certainly wrong… or not. :man_shrugging:t2:

1 Like

I think it would bring more visibility and appreciation to Conflux. Conflux has huge potential! It is very similar to BSC and ETH network but has not yet gained the attention of the cryptographic world in a wide way.

This change would bring the big miners, and consequently all eyes on Conflux, causing people to discover that Conflux can do everything that the ETH and BSC networks do, at almost zero cost.:exploding_head:

Conflux would definitely enter the top 5 of blockchain networks

3 Likes

I am totally against this update. The conflux came detaching itself from Eth and gained the world. has its own blockchain and a secure network, changing the algorithm just to try to get new miners to join is no guarantee that change will bring such effects.

The coin is in stable positions so when the ETH merge occurs all processing power will be reallocated to various cryptos including conflux.

The most sensible thing is to keep security updates, keep the coin’s purpose than to make risky strategies in an attempt to seek new miners.

If after the merge there is not a big increase in the number of miners the network will still be there to try to conquer its place in the world. If you have this change and it fails, you will end up with the coin and everything it has conquered.

The ton coin, even being mined together with ETH, there was no mass adhesion on its network, even though the coin is well known.

2 Likes

I think this is a welcome update. I’m a miner.

if you want to improve the adhesion of new miners, it would be more interesting to reduce the size of the DAG file and make optimization for ADM boards, without changing the algorithm.

1 Like

In my opinion I think it would be better to optimize the current algorithm to have better energy efficiency, and also integrate AMD graphics cards, I think this would improve and attract more mining power to the Conflux blockchain.

2 Likes

The existing algo (Octopus) is state-of-the-art and shouldn’t be traded for any mainstream solution such as Ethash. Admittedly, the algo can be improved at some point in the future but should retain its current sovereignty.

PoW chain and the project as a whole don’t need to be exposed to an inflow of industrial miners with tones of pre-configured ASICs.

4 Likes

No thank you !!! I made the choise on cfx few month ago , realy before the merge besause octupus is asic resistant! Keep octopus as as the uniq cfx Algo !

It’s not a good choise to go etash algo .
Your better improvement will be to work on the more efficiency octupus algo ( like ergo algo ) but not to welcome miners after the merge. They had to do the choise on cfx before the merge :wink:

Thank you

5 Likes

I’m a ambassador and also a miner and personally don’t like the CIP-102 proposal about switching CFX (octopus > ethereum algo “probably ethash”)

Some people may like it but looking at the current asics being produced and the hashrate to wattage it isn’t really helpfull.

Asics turn into paper weights / scrap or can be scraped for chips and metal. But next to that I personally like coins more that support the GPU’s.

It would maybe be a good idea to look into supporting AMD cards next to the Nvidia cards (gtx 16xx - rtx 20xx - rtx 30xx - RTX Axxxx and so on.)

Looking at the current hashrate for some AMD cards it’s kind of weird they are having almost 0 hashrate but on the other end it also looks interesting.

Also another thing that should be looked into is the current dag size growing alot.

How will this be affected “if switching to other algo” and what will be the DAG starting point.
Why I’m mentioning the DAG starting point is because some asics are 4GB/5GB after that point you will only have new asics or modified asics with memory upgrades.

4 Likes

More information is certainly needed and I think @No_One_Is_Innocent got the important points correct. Reiterating just the questions:

-Will switching to EtHash reduce TPS?
-Will this affect the DAG size?

Short Answer: I am confident Conflux is ready and able to take on the risk of switching to ETHash for the perceived benefit of breaking down barriers and getting as many miners on the network as possible.

Long Answer: Assuming the hashing algorithm change has NO NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS on the Tree Graph consensus or TPS.

I think the hope is more miners come to Conflux, which ultimately drives overall adoption and exposure in the mainstream crypto community. All positives in my eyes.

As previously mentioned by others Octopus is unique to Conflux. I love how Conflux can and will build bespoke for their needs and abandoning something unique for something seemingly losing its main purpose does feel like a step back technologically, although this view may be flawed, ETHash is proven to be viable at massive-scale.

@joseconflu and @Ghost also so made important points about other ways to onboard AMD cards and fight DAG size v. average GPU memory capacity. These approaches seem like a more conservative option to achieve some of the same goals.

In the end I would be happy with either Octopus or ETHash, but making the switch to ETHASH feels like a higher-risk, higher-reward option. The team has invested significantly in and seems confident about the PoS layer as a protective measure against PoW based attack vectors.

There could be a massive network effect if hashrate grows orders of magnitude from current levels and personally I would be fine if my small mining rig becomes less impactful if the network gains adoption and presumably CFX gains value. There is a set output rate after all, so price should respond to a large change in hashrate.

5 Likes

作为矿工,我反对此提案,因为众所周知Ethash算法并不抗ASIC,一旦CIP-102法案通过,那么对于Conflux的生态和矿工都是毁灭性的打击,一方面是抛弃了自家的灵魂算法:Octopus,另外一方面是不在去中心化,而且会导致整个网络更容易被攻击,因为ASIC矿机的算力巨大。所以我们希望驳回此次提案,而是把更多的精力放在优化自家的算法上,比如更好的支持AMD GPU,优化DAG大小等,如果官方和社区执意通过此提案,我相信会有更多的GPU矿工迁移至ERGO上。

As a miner, I oppose this proposal because it is well known that ethash algorithm is not resistant to ASIC. Once the cip-102 bill is passed, it will be a devastating blow to the ecology of conflux and the miners. On the one hand, it abandons its own soul algorithm: octopus. On the other hand, it is not decentralized, and it will make the entire network more vulnerable to attack, because the computing power of ASIC miner is huge. Therefore, we hope to reject this proposal and focus more on optimizing our own algorithm, such as better supporting amd GPU and optimizing DAG size. If the government and the community insist on passing this proposal, I believe more GPU miners will migrate to ergo.

3 Likes

支持
算力即正义,cfx矿工已经完成了少量的积累,
新矿机进场,产出量必然稀释,推动币价上涨

Terrible idea. If we wanted to mine ethhash we would have been mining eth since day 1 and you would have had no base to build from. Changing algorithm would be a giant F u to the little community we have and if you think you can build on top of a base community who now hates you, you’re playing yourself

3 Likes

我不认为改为eth的算法就会有更多人加入,反而更不能抵抗asic了。是否有新的算力加入还是以价格为核心。有利可图自然就有更多算力加入。无利可图做的再完美也不会有算力加入。区块链做了这么多年,怎么连一个核心的问题都没有想明白呢?
我们应该先谈一下,什么样的公链是最佳状态,必然是去中心化的,分散的。现在eth已经不可以抵抗asic了,预示着算力未来会更集中化。
我们再谈一下如何让算力呈现出最佳的分散状态,那自然是需要全球的人共同参与。如何调动大家的积极性,必然是要奖励token,token价值所觉定,网络的分散度,安全度,算力值的高低。
我认为conflux 目前更应该思考,如何提高价值。如何让token的持有者相信conflux有未来。毕竟已经跌去了%95以上了。并且此项目再中国大陆是否合法。大陆用户是否可以正常参与。如何证明其合法性。如果能证明合法性,那么参与的人必将会大大提高。如果不能合法参与者随时面临被定义淘汰产业的风险,算力也自然越来越少。
先说这么多把,有其他兄弟能补充了的化也来补充补充。

2 Likes

我国对虚拟货币与区块链技术采取了不同的监管立场:一方面,我国对区块链技术和产业发展给予高度重视,区块链被列为“十四五”七大数字经济重点产业之一,希冀为区块链技术和产业发展营造良好的政策环境;另一方面,我国对虚拟货币领域的监管政策层层加码,《2013年通知》的规制目标包括“保障人民币的法定货币地位,防范洗钱风险,维护金融稳定”,《2017年公告》强调“防范化解金融风险”,《2021年通知》则强调“为进一步防范和处置虚拟货币交易炒作风险,切实维护国家安全和社会稳定“。

在风险防范的大基调下,我国公法领域对虚拟货币业务采取了“一刀切”否定式的监管架构,使虚拟货币在公法定性上趋向于事实上的“违禁品”,不受监管机构的正面认可。这两方面的法律政策合力,实质上是在推动“无币区块链”的发展。然而,“无币区块链”的政策导向与区块链产业蓬勃发展之间存在逻辑矛盾。根据区块链技术内部结构的不同,可区分为公有链、私有链和联盟链3种类型。其中,公有链必须依赖共识机制及代币(或通证,即token)经济激励,使缺乏信任基础的参与者由于经济利益产生关联与协作。在区块链生态系统中,通证可以作为通行证、激励、权益证明、价值储存的媒介以及支付清算的手段;没有通证的区块链,很难调动起没有利益关系、彼此之间缺乏信任的大众参与到区块链行业生态系统中来。因此,我国政策推行的“无币区块链”愿景仅在联盟链与私有链中存在可能,无法推动面向公众的公有链的有效发展。公有链是区块链顶尖技术研发的主流,但以代币发行和交易为主要功能的公有链在我国面临合法性困境。

“禁令型”政策可以暂时处置风险,但是从长远来看却有可能扼杀金融创新。以2017年火热的首次代币发行(ICO)为例,首次代币发行在我国兴起源于对普惠金融和中小微创新企业融资的内生需求。我国以中小个人投资者为主的金融市场,缺乏提供与之风险承受能力相匹配的、合适的低门槛投资渠道,致使普通大众难以享受金融投资带来的诸多福利。首次代币发行具有普惠金融的特点和促进包容性增长的功能,体现出传统金融升级换代过程中必然产生的内生需求当下如若不彻底化解高昂融资成本与弱势融资主体资金需求间的矛盾,即使首次代币发行被“扼杀”,各类规避监管“非法”兴起的融资新业态仍会不断衍生。与此同时,不加区分的全面禁令抑制了新兴业态的合规化转型,甚至迫使部分金融科技的从业者由“主动寻求监管”转向“地下”或“出海”发展,从而加剧监管的难度。加粗示例

1 Like

支持CIP102。

  1. 以太坊挖矿算法被成千上万的矿工和长达7年证明了其可靠性, 能兼容A卡和N卡,让更多矿工能参与进来,功耗也相对树图低,更加成熟可靠

  2. 用户基础大

  3. 当前树图矿工前10名占据了80%的算力,而且币价涨跌对算力影响小,目前算力相对太集中

  4. 能灵活的切换到Ethash,可以证明树图的扩展行和灵活性,能随时势而变,让区块链行业能看到树图敢于改变

当然部分矿工担心修改算法让更多人参与进来动了他们的既得利益,他们反对也很正常,其次切换有可能会出现故障,可能会经历几次修复,但是不影响大局。

众所周知,挖CFX收益是不如挖eth的。
扯什么既得利益…如果改ethash能让我获得和eth一样的收益,我举双脚赞成。But i doubt that.
octopus是吸引我挖CFX的一个因素,我可以用LHR卡和20系显卡获得相对不错的收益。更重要的是,出块速度和容易自建节点让我不需要加入矿池。
如果切换ethash,我的显卡在580和ASIC面前将失去竞争力。和我一样愿意损失一部分收益,换取便捷的小矿工也会增多。
我怀疑届时我的收入将会降低,所以我不喜欢这个提案。
我更希望有一个兼容AMD的,抗ASIC的,对新显卡更公平的新octopus算法,而不是ethash

1 Like